Bad Light Bulbs
posted by Ira Flatow on Monday, March 30. 2009
Thank goodness! I thought I was going nuts. I have been changing my compact flourescent light bulbs over and over again wondering why they were burning out so quickly. I thought it was just my imagination. But a story in the NY Times made me realize I wasn't the only one suffering burn out.
In my case I notice that the base of the bulb is literally cooking itself to death. It turns a coffee-colored brown and smells like burnt electrical wiring. It's hot to the touch. No wonder the bulbs don't last the rated "ten years" as the advertising says. I'd be surprised if they last 10 months in some cases. I swear some of my old incadescent bulbs lasted longer.
Why? I'm guessing cheap parts. I first started using cfl's over ten years ago, when everyone laughed at me for being such a whacko. And some of those early bulbs made by Philips are still working a decade later. But once everyone started buying the bulbs and mass production drove down the cost of making the cheaper (China?) bulbs the quality has gone to hell.
But here's the real problem. If crappy bulbs make people believe that going green means worse quality then we will all suffer. Who wants to switch over? We need to make the next generation of bulbs better, not just cheaper.
And why not make them here instead of overseas? Let's make the US the home of reliable, quality made parts -again. Let's start by making good light bulbs and move on to other green consumer technologies. I'd gladly pay a buck a bulb more for a product that creates green jobs now and for years to come.
And I'm already looking into LED's.
In my case I notice that the base of the bulb is literally cooking itself to death. It turns a coffee-colored brown and smells like burnt electrical wiring. It's hot to the touch. No wonder the bulbs don't last the rated "ten years" as the advertising says. I'd be surprised if they last 10 months in some cases. I swear some of my old incadescent bulbs lasted longer.
Why? I'm guessing cheap parts. I first started using cfl's over ten years ago, when everyone laughed at me for being such a whacko. And some of those early bulbs made by Philips are still working a decade later. But once everyone started buying the bulbs and mass production drove down the cost of making the cheaper (China?) bulbs the quality has gone to hell.
But here's the real problem. If crappy bulbs make people believe that going green means worse quality then we will all suffer. Who wants to switch over? We need to make the next generation of bulbs better, not just cheaper.
And why not make them here instead of overseas? Let's make the US the home of reliable, quality made parts -again. Let's start by making good light bulbs and move on to other green consumer technologies. I'd gladly pay a buck a bulb more for a product that creates green jobs now and for years to come.
And I'm already looking into LED's.
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I am an electrical contractor and you just repeated what I have been complaining about for the past few years.
I think some of my cfl burnouts can be attributed to their being used in light fixtures that are enclosed and not specifically designed for them but, like you, I have cfls from over 15 years ago [made in usa] which are still working albeit with diminished output while many of the china made are toast [as you describe exactly].
I have returned a couple dozen of the recently made for warranty exchanges.
(Reply)
[I did post #1]
I did not mean to give the impression I am not in favor of CFLs. I think they are great. Those designed for commercial applications live up to their warranty, has been my experience.
The comment about incandescent providing a heat source etc. during winter-all that has been worked out in designs etc. For malls, which on occasions needed air conditioning year round because of the heat I have read, the CFLs are much more energy efficient winter or summer.
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I find many products from China that are inferior, whether workmanship or materials, I am not sure. Flos should not be generating enough heat to turn something brown. I wonder if it is poor contact between socket and bulb base?
Rick
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Sylvania is the best, although even they have a few duds. You get what you pay for, usually.
Still, don't let your experience feed the naysayer argument for total abandonment. Be a scientist, experiment with different bulbs.
Say you bought 5 CFLs to replace 5 incandescents. Even if 2 of the 5 were duds, you'd still be saving a hundred dollars over time. Apply that logic to the experiment: buy 5 different brands, see which have the best color and durability after a year. Go with the best in the future. The investment will pay, just as it does with a diverse stock portfolio, even when some of the stocks tank.
I hate to hear people claim that their "educated" as the couple in the NYT article, and then whine helplessly in the next breath. There's "college-educated", and then there's science-savvy.
Sooner or later you'll go with the savvy investment in lighting that isn't self-ballasted, avoiding all the burnout problems. CFLs are merely a transitional technology, allowing us to put lights in sockets made for edison bulbs. Much better is a system that puts a ballast in the wall/ceiling, runs thin, high-voltage/low-current wires to the bulb in a fixture with a soon-to-be standardized attachment system. Keep an eye out for this.
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It's China's way to poison us with mercury since most people don't realize these contain the heavy metal. I have half the bulbs left that I bought in 1988 when they first came out so go figure. The new ones aren't lasting.
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I'm from China and, as a matter of fact, we feel the same way as you are. There are indeed some problems about CFLs made in China. However, I think what's said by adora is reasonable. Maybe when Chinese workers can get same wages as the workers in US, the quality of CFLs manufactured here will be satisfied.
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I'd suspect that the cost of producing the same products in the US would cost 10 times the ones in China.
In general, wages are 20 times higher. American workers demand a lot of health insurance, good working condition, and benefits... It all adds up.
And more importantly, no one dream of one day becoming light bulb makers. It is an undesirable job.
In Japan, people generally appreciate quality. It is the only country that is immune to Walmart! They have more respect for factory workers. They are seen as skilled and essential to the society. I feel that we need to restore that kind of attitude in order to bring back manufacturing.
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Dear Ira & Co.,
I've had a similar experience with fluorescent light bulbs. I first started purchasing them many years ago, and indeed those early bulbs are still working today. Subsequently, I have made similar observations as you about the cheap fluorescent light bulbs coming out of China in the last few years or more. Although, I try to buy as many different brands as I can, searching for a good quality bulb, they all seem to come from China, and they’re all junk. I came to the same conclusion as you, either they are using cheaper parts and/or designs than the earlier models, and/or they have poor manufacturing processes and quality control. If these more expensive bulbs do no last, then there dies a convincing argument for buying them. It would also be fitting if the media would more frequently highlight the importers of these junk products! Maybe if the millions of cheap bulbs these importers are making undue profits on, had to be reclaimed by them, then they might take some responsibility as well. Especially if they had to dispose of them properly; don’t they contain mercury and thus are considered hazardous waste?
I began dating my bulbs with a Sharpie: Date Installed, and Date Burned Out. I've been keeping the packaging for the bulbs (and receipt), and as they burn out I place the dated bulbs back in the package. I’ve almost filled up a 7-pack of bulbs that advertise long-life, up to 10 years, with bulbs that have died in less than 2 years under typical usage. I am not sure what I’m going to do with my fluorescent bulb graveyard, but I like your idea of the U.S. becoming the country for clean, green, quality consumer technologies and products. Maybe my graveyard of prematurely departed dead bulbs will present a convincing visual argument to some U.S. entrepreneur, that these cheap China bulbs need some competition.
The other disconnect is that the literature available from energy companies and other sources for decreasing home energy consumption and shrinking your carbon footprint, are touting fluorescent bulbs, saying they are worth the extra money because they last longer; these folks need to update their information. Yes, you are using less energy, and I love that, but unfortunately, it’s more expensive to do so.
P.S. When I was a kid, my mom would return her burned out incandescent light bulbs to the Edison Electric Co. for a free replacement. Sometimes the face of progress is one that only its mother could love.
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Another thing to consider with CFLs; their energy savings could be better in summer than winter. Quite a few buildings use heat produced by lighting and building contents as part of their heating budget. In winter, saving energy with CFLs might just mean running the furnace more to maintain building temperature. In summer, CFLs are great to save on air conditioning cost.
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I appreciate the comments supporting the purchase of CFL's even if they don't live up to the advertised life-span. But let's not forget that the production and distribution of the bulb itself requires use of energy and raw materials. And so, are we really acheiving any of the 'green' objectives when we have to produce, distribute, and dispose of 5 bulbs instead of 1 (assuming we are averaging 2 years of life instead of the advertised 10)?
The claims being made by the manufacturers are clearly misleading, and causing consumers to make decisions that seem to be 'green', but may not necessarly be.
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I have been using TCP Technical Consumer Products) lamps in the commercial building I manage and have never had a problem. The very few that burned out prematurely were replaced by them. I have some that have been in 7 years or more and are still burning. In addition TCP offers its lamps in color temperatures from 3100k to 6500k, different colors, long neck, and different voltages. I have used some of the lamps you buy at building supply centers in my home but they are far inferior to the TCP lamps.
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CFL's made by Superior Lamp Inc (made in USA) are the best I have ever had. Mini-twist type (think ceiling fan), 32Watts (equal to 150W Incand.), daylight rendering (no unnatural glow unlike other cfl's), 20 year warranty (admittedly only 7 years since I bought the first one but no burnouts yet), and dimmable (not even an option with other cfl's). Careful though, you get what you pay for at $20.00 per bulb/ min. 10 bulb order. Of course you can stick with the $2.00 cheapos at Walmart and replace them every year, you do the math.
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Ira, you're not the only one. I'm no electrician, but I've noticed that my garage lights burn out quicker than the CFLs in rest of the house. I'm guessing it may be the wider swings of heat-cold cycling in the garage. In response to Shawn, I may try Sylvania CFL. Since CFLs require careful handling for recycle anyway; I think any future CFLs will get a corresponding file with date of use; purchase location, location in house and the reciept. I've seen arrays of LED's at a home show that are cool and bright for a reading spot-lamp. LEDs for bikes are brighter than ever, large arrays for tractor-trailers are road-worthy, but I'm reluctant to try the high-priced car-bulb, retrofit for my old car.
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Yeah, I'm right there with you, friend! The next generation of light bulbs need to definitely be built stronger. Not just cheaper, because cheaper can mean less of a quality factor, which just makes them run out just as soon as the old ones!
- Tyra
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I must say that I am not for the CFL's.
Flourecents have always bothered my eyes and if they are not made well they strobe which is very annoying. Medically those who suffer with Epilepsy can seizure because of strobing if they are sensitive enough. Also, they produce an ugly light. you scientist know that different types of light such as sulfurs, incandescents, gases etc...produce different colors and are used for various industry sectors.
And if I could just a a real question here....they keep talking about cars running on electricity but hasn't it been one of the battle cries for flourescents so we would use less electricity?
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>>I must say that I am not for the CFL's.
Flourecents have always bothered my eyes and if they are not made well they strobe which is very annoying. Medically those who suffer with Epilepsy can seizure because of strobing if they are sensitive enough.>Also, they produce an ugly light. you scientist know that different types of light such as sulfurs, incandescents, gases etc...produce different colors and are used for various industry sectors.And if I could just a a real question here....they keep talking about cars running on electricity but hasn't it been one of the battle cries for flourescents so we would use less electricity?<
The point is that if we can get cars to run off of electricity, then we significantly lower the amount of CO2 that is put into the air (22 bs of CO2 per gallon of gas burned, as it combines with O2 in the air during combustion).
Once we have cars operating on electricity than we can seamlessly change how we generate electricity in the future. We might be using dirty coal today, but tomorrow we could use nuclear, solar, tidal, or wind, with no carbon generation. Most of the infrastructure alread is in place to support a lot of electric cars as most cars would charge their batteries at night, off peak hours.
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The consumer cannot be expected to deal with light bulb quality issues. This is a perfect example of why we need expert consumer advocates to rate each brand for quality and durability. Every light bulb should carry the rating label.
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I have found the 2 bulbs I bought 7 years ago are still going strong. I haven't bought anymore since then and don't plan to now that I have read this.
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This is hilarious, I also was getting frustrated with this same situation. I even went as far as replacing my ballast and lighting unit as I thought it was shorting out the bulbs somehow.
To think of the money wasted.
Ladder Ball
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Wow, thanks for the reality check. I recently had a conversation with an advocate of green energy, in which he pretty much dismissed me as nuts for claiming that these bulbs are burning out. I guess ideology can be like Groucho Marx' quote: “Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?”
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Hi,
When we first moved into a new house in 2005, we pulled all of the bulbs in the can lights around the house and replaced them with CFLs. We ended up with a combination of Philips and Bright Effects. They started blowing after only a few months and over the last 4 years, 14 have died. I saved them all knowing that I'd do something with them at some point.
A couple of months ago, I did. I contacted both Philips and Bright Effects and complained. With very little objection, Philips refunded what I paid for the bulbs and sent me a return UPS label to send them the defective bulbs, which I did. Bright Effects sent me replacement bulbs (one of which was dead in the box, having partially separated from its base) and also requested I return the defective bulbs, which I did.
The key to driving higher quality is forcing these companies to be accountable for the junk they sell. No matter what it costs to produce the bulbs and what the company sells them for, if they have to repeatedly pay for defectives and return postage, it becomes unprofitable and they way around that is to produce a better quality product.
Hold the manufacturers to a reasonable standard (at least to their life claims for their bulbs) and things will change.
By the way, READ THE LABELS carefully. Even though the large type will say "Lasts 10 years!", the fine print will tell you that they only warranty the bulbs for 2 or 3 or maybe 5 years.
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We have the same problem in Australia.
What many forget is these are simply another Fluorescent Light which means like their big brothers CFLs also don't like repeated short On-Off cycles which greatly shortens the tube life.
So using them in high-traffic areas ie:
Bathrooms, kid's bedrooms etc sends them to an early grave.
If used where they are left permanently on or turned on at dusk and off at bedtime or dawn they last much longer.
Fittings allowing air circulation are also essential.
CFLs also have an additional problem - they each contain a small amount of electronics in them.
Regions like the EU are passing new strong laws against electronics dumping into landfill as this wastes valuable resources, rapidly fills available landfill space and creates pollution problems for water tables etc.
EU laws will require any manufacturer wishing to sell electronics in the EU will also have to take back the products for recycling.
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This whole response blog should be preserved and used as required reading for our (USA), federal and state legeslature, but unlike that of the Ausie's experience, our nation (and media, isn't Murdock proud) isn't nearly as influenced by common public as it is by large corporations...and a lie has no punative consequence, though many rewards. I don't know what happened to the ecologically groovy hippies of the 60's, but their values for ecological integrity don't show up in the American media (or politics) today.
Why shouldn't China manufacture and sale us their cheapest work deliberately packaged in false and lieing labeling? Our International Corp's would do the same to them. And, who are we to wine, isn't that what were paying for? Isn't that what we are rewarding our American corporate identities to do to us? If a U.S. Corp. is ever singeled out and attempted prosacution, or even regulation, only the ethically unconsious stockholders are possibly, temporarily "dinged". No one in the top ranks of decesions, actions and rewards are punatively "dinged". American Corporate Integrity, Responsibility, and Pride went the way of the CEO penal code! Where are the hippie protestors in the streets now? I used to be so proud of them...and America!
Sorry about the rant... Thanks for NPR and you all for bringing this to our attention---and for your little peace of protest.
Supposedly the Mega-LED Bulbs will be the new cheap, ecological revolution. No doubt we Easterners have already started re-tooling China's industrius, and presently cheap, work force up. We'll gladly pay them for it...as long as we can.
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Too bad I have the same experience. I like the idea of having the bulb to be manufactured here in the US, we really need that. Especially now, we need to create more jobs. It is the quality that matters not the price. It would cost the same in the long run.
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Isn't it annoying? No good deed goes unpunished! :)
Shawn: Thanks for the Sylvania tip!!
-Tom
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Nope. All the bulbs in my country are still very expensive; so I assume that we are still consuming the first generation of bulbs that were imported from Germany. The new LED bulbs are sooo expensive!
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I couldn't agree more with the domestic vs import assessment. I am an automotive lighting engineer by trade, and have experience with tracking and evaluating the cause of bulb failures. In the automotive field, there is a strong correlation between country of manufacture and failure rate. That's not to say there aren't good quality bulbs manufactured outside of the US; there just seems to be a higher emphasis on quality and accuracy at the US based corporations.
I recently did an experiment with CFLs at home - I put 8 different bulbs into 8 pendant fixtures in my garage (I live in Michigan, so the bulbs are subject to temperature variation). They have been installed almost 2 years now, and although I have had no failures, there was from the beginning a marked difference in performance. Several brands of imported bulbs were blatantly misadvertised in terms of lumen output and color temperature. I concur with Shawn - the Sylvania are the most consistent performers of the samples I tested. I have since installed 8 42W Sylvania Dulux in a commercial application and have found them to be both durable and consistend from bulb to bulb in color and output. Note that these are quite bright (~2850 lumens) and quite white (5000K).
After experiencing good quality CFLs, I would not go back to incandescent for most applications.
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i face this.i know what`s the problem.thanks for your idea.
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The warranty is useless in the case of low-cost items like light bulbs. In order to use it, you must know where it came from and keep the original packaging and receipt. I actually wrote a number on some of these bulbs to keep track of when and where it was purchased. When it failed I threw it out anyway. It is less trouble to buy a new one than to use the warranty. I think this is behavior known to those who design warranties. Very few bad bulbs will actually be returned, and they are aware of this.
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Thanx for the awareness, and here i thought i was the only one who had this problem with light bulbs.
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I really didn't think I was the only one with this problem, we keep extra bulbs around like extra toilet paper!
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Wow! I thought is was just me! I've actually gone back to using incandescent bulbs in some fixtures because they last so much longer, making them cheaper in the long run.
It's also a safety issue. One evening, while we were home, fortunately, my wife and I smelled a faint odor. I've burned up enough resistors in my day (some on purpose :) to know what burning electronics smells like. As we searched the house, we actually found smoke coming from a small CFL. If we had not caught it, I think it might have "lit up" using combustion instead of the preferred method of flurecsence. I used to use CFLs in lights that we would leave on while we were out. Not any more. I'm back to the old glowing wires, at least until LEDs become cheaper.
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I. too, started using CFLs early on with the oldest lasting longer than those I puchased in the past few years.
Has anyone else noticed damage to lamp shades, particularly silks and those with a rigid plastic lining? I wonder if the CFLs (mostly the earliest versions) emitted damaging uv radiation similar to sunlight.
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This is a problem I have noticed also. Here in Sweden you can buy compact fluorescent bulbs at places like IKEA - and then they are made in China and of poor quality, giving off a sickly yellowish light. But you can also get them in hardware stores and those are much better, although a bit more expensive. At the hardware store where I buy them, they come with a two-year warranty (keep the receipt!) The good fluorescents are really great and I hardly use any old-fashioned incandescent bulbs at all nowadays.
The used bulbs are to be left at a recycling facility, which I can do like once a year.
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CFLs don't do well in places where they get switched on and off a lot. Closets, laundry rooms, dining rooms, and table lamps are for incandescents (until we get LEDs).
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LED lamps still have a long way to go before they will be competitive for general lighting applications. The earliest adopters will pay a lot, and essentially be beta testers. The next group will pay a little less, and get debugged designs that will actually perform as advertised. Then the never-ending pressure to reduce costs will predominate, and the market will be tested as to how bad of a product consumers will accept. This is the same pattern as we have seen with the CFLs.
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Has anyone else noticed how many new cars these days already have at least one burnt out lightbulb? To save a few cents on each vehicle, they are buying bulbs in quantity from China, and they are garbage.
I had a 1985 Chevy Suburban I bought new and 17 years and 180,000 miles later I had to replace not a single bulb. Now half the GM vehicles I see on the road barely 6 months old have bulbs out, as well as many other manufacturers.
Charge me $5 more and sell me a vehicle with bulbs that will last past the first required inspection!
I will not have Chinese made garbage in my house. I'll pay more to buy "Made in USA", thank you very much.
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Has anyone found a supplier of the Panasonic CFL's - we bought some of these about 7 years ago b/c at the time they were the only ones we could find that had an outer capsule so they looked good in open fixtures. They're still working great and we haven't seen them in any retail outlet in years.
And the first CFL we ever bought (it was either a Sylvania or Phillips) about 10 years ago is still working, although it warms up a bit slower than it used to.
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What do you mean let the US make bulbs? Is there anything stopping us? Do you think we should subsidize bulb making? Should we put up protectionist policies to increase consumer costs and sour our trade? You want to buy American, go ahead. But when I hear those words I look out for my wallet, becausee it usually means some body wanting to force me and other consumers to pay for their uncompetitivness by closing markets or other unfair practices.
If bulbs are cheaply made, that reflects our poor consumer standards. If we buy them that way, then China, or anyone else, will make them that way. AMericans are just as capable of making shabby goods, when the market will bear it (remember the 1970's auto industry). Xenophobic protectionist rallying cries won't make a better product, and will probably make a worse one.
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>Do you think we should subsidize bulb making? Should we put up protectionist policies to increase consumer costs and sour our trade? You want to buy American, go ahead. But when I hear those words I look out for my wallet, becausee it usually means some body wanting to force me and other consumers to pay for their uncompetitivness by closing markets or other unfair practices.<
Don't forget that while goods like CF bulbs from China may seem cheap, the real costs are hidden.
The real costs are lower life expectancy for Chinese workers (both in direct manufacturing and the energy sector), substandard working conditions, massive environmental pollution on a global scale (due to incredible number of coal-fired energy plants in China), and irreversible environmental damage (lost species and habitat, etc.)
The reasons why goods cost more to manufacture here is that many of these "hidden" costs are no longer hidden in US goods, but are accounted for in the price. For instance, there are laws about pollution, environment, and worker safety to which US companies have to comply.
You may think you are getting cheap goods from China, but they come with a high price. Think about that next time you see a mercury contamination warning at your local fish market.
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Interesting--I have installed about 35 cfls inside and outside the house, and in about two years, have had, I believe, two go out on me. I was surprised about those, because of the long-life claims on the packaging. But the percent failure rate is about 5 percent, so I am not too upset. I purchased mine at a big box warehouse and a home improvement store.
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I was doing the online visual tour of the studio and noticed (I may be wrong becuase the details are blurred) but looks like you have incadensent lights in the studio. Can those be replaced by CFLs or LEDs?
Also it would be cool to know who is who in the picture...
Keep up the great work!
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Almost my entire house had been converted to CFLs, but I have gone back to using incandescent bulbs. First, the CFLs burn out way too quickly and are not worth the considerable extra cost. Second, I turned one on one day, and it hesitated longer than usual. Then it came on in a bright flash, and black smoke started pouring out of it. I quickly killed the power to it, and it eventually stopped smoking. The house smelled like burnt electrical wiring. Having lived through a house fire once, I will not have anything in my house that I consider a fire hazard, so the CFLs are outta here. Doing some research online, I found other people describing the same problem, and found that the manufacturers consider it "normal" for some of the CFLs to die on this manner. Like Ira, I also noticed that the bases of the CFLs "cook" over time, becoming quite brown. Has anyone else noticed how DULL they become, too? Whenever I would replace one, I would be astonished at how much brighter the replacement was. This is not mentioned in all the marketing hype! Anyway, I am done with CFLs for now. I tried LEDs, but hated the color and hated the way they only through light in a little circle.
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I also agree with you that the light bulbs available in the market are more often than not, cheap but low in quality. I just don't agree with you that it is only US who can produce good quality light bulbs. A lot of cheap and of good quality light bulbs are available all over the world.
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Here in the Philippines, a lot of cheap but with low quality light bulbs proliferate our market. How I wish that my fellow Filipino would not need to purchase from other neighboring countries. If we could come up with a cheap price but with good quality bulbs.
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I too have experienced poor reliability, ranging from dead-in-the box to one-year lifespans.
It's not worth the gas and time to drive to the store for a refund.
The answer may be a class-action suit against manufacturers who claim a ten-year life and deliver far less.
The cost of the class-action awards would encourage some quality control by manufacturers, or at least more honest product-life claims.
Don in Ohio
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Here here! I switched to CF a couple of years ago, and yes, I did find on bulb that I had to replace more often than the original bulb. I had to replace two of the CFs I had installed in my bathroom (6 globe bulbs), and regardless, I also found that the light switch would be tricky. Just bumping it would turn the lights off. Some kind of short, or, I guessed, voltage mis-match.
So you mention LED? AT LAST they're marketing them at consumer prices!
I replaced all six CF bulbs in the bathroom with LEDs and all my problems went away. Meanwhile, the rest of my house, front outside light, backdoor light, fridge light! are all CF.
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i use a combination of ge reveal bulbs and cfl's. i don't find the color of the cfl to be acceptable at the dinner table or bathrooms, so they only go in the rest of the house. ikea was a good early source of many lamps and bulbs. both cost and variety, and its a nice way to encourage people to design better lighting rather than the harsh bulb in the center of the ceiling type lighting scheme.
in any case i've only had a few bulbs burn out on me and i've been using them for a decade. i do find a mixture is still neccessary, so bans like that in the uk are rather absurd. luckily we have not gone that far here.
led lighting has been disappointing. cheap bulbs have awful light quality, and better ones cost a fortune. led lamps at stores are the awful 5mm led cluster types. ice blue lighting is just a good way to turn everyone off to leds. never mind maglight and their charging good money for years old led tech. rather sad.
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Tonight (Sunday April 19) CBS 60 Minutes will do a segment on Cold
Fusion. I'm fairly convinced that this safe, clean technology will
replace oil, gas and coal. I'm an engineer and a long time researcher
in this field.
The segment will show Cold Fusion in a positive spotlight.
===========================
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/07/08/60minutes/main13502.shtml
CBS 60 Minutes reports on cold fusion
April 2009
The CBS newsmagazine 60 minutes will report on cold fusion on April
19, 2009. See:
"COLD FUSION IS HOT AGAIN - Presented in 1989 as a revolutionary new
source of energy, cold fusion was quickly dismissed as junk science.
But today, the buzz among scientists is that these experiments produce
a real physical effect that could lead to monumental breakthroughs in
energy production. Scott Pelley reports. Denise Schrier Cetta is the
producer."
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This just backs up my own personal theory that these new type of bulbs really don't last as long as their more traditional cousins. Is this a false economy, only time will see.
Tim Mitchell
Marketing Manager
World Ideas Ltd:
All Jigsaw Puzzles
dog ramps
Steam Mops Direct
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I don't agree to the suggestion that we should each run our own reliability test to identify reliable manufacturers.
Manufacturers switch sources and sometimes "value-engineer" (make stuff cheaper.)
By the time we have run our own tests, the data may become irrelevant.
Make the manufacturers responsible for their advertising claims.
Manufacturing can impact the environment as much or more than energy usage.
Earth week is the perfect time to highlight unreliability of "green" products.
Don in Ohio
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I am glad someone else has confirmed what I have experienced. Most of the CFL's I bought burned out relatively quickly. Along with the disposal issues, I quit buying them.
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Hello Ira,
Nice blog, nice layout
I have written extensively about the light bulb ban.
About CFLs - it's even worse than what you say!! For the industrial politics behind the ban in the European Union see
http://ceolas.net/#li1ax
For the longest(?) list of reasons against a light bulb ban just scroll down from there...
There's a bigger question few ask, 'cause it seems obvious:
Why have any energy efficiency regulation anyway?
Consumers can decide for themselves if energy/money savings are worth it for them, in comparing with advantages of different lights.
Energy supply is no problem:
Long lasting nuclear energy and renewables are there, and will be used more as and when
depletion raises the price of fossil fuel energy - without the need for any political intervention.
Emissions?
Does your light bulb give out any gases?
Maybe your CFL does, when it's burning :-)
So power stations are the problem, not light bulbs!
Emission control can of course be placed on power stations, renewable energy spread etc.
More on how to deal directly with emissions -and fund it- and how to leave consumers alone, see http://www.ceolas.net
Great this Internet, will give your show a listen now.
We can hear some NPR shows here in Ireland like Wait wait dont tell me and
the Lake Wobegon show.
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I've been replacing sylvania twist bulbs on a regular basis. The odor and brown burn marks on the base of the bulbs make me worry about a fire hazard.
There is not enough publicity on this topic. Selling inferior products that don't live up the their warranty, and not educating consumers on the proper use of the bulbs? What are they thinking?
I've also notice that regular bulbs have been separating from their bases when I try to replace them.
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I have been selling Premuim Qaulity CFL's now for over 4 years with Maintenance Engineering. ME is a direct sales company offering life-time guarntees on all its products. Our Lumi-Twist CFL's are guaranteed for 24 months, and thats based on a 12 hour a day usage. They also are provide Full-Spectrum output with minimal color fade. Visit www.thelightbulbguy.net for details.
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Belated answer, in case Ira or his staff still read old threads.
My first CFLs, Phillips, are still working -- but on the longest used, in a few places the phosphor has flaked off inside. Those are emitting a dangerous amount of ultraviolet light -- remember inside every fluorescent is a mercury vapor lamp emitting a LOT of ultraviolet, the phosphor shifts the wavelength down to visible light.
The person asking about damage to lampshades -- might be the same problem there. There's a little bit of far-blue-to-UV from any fluorescent; once you get into the 400nm and below those are very energetic photons.
http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/spectra7.htm
Remember too that it's the blue range light that controls sleep (460-500 nm, or something like that).
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22blue+light%22+melatonin+sleep
Use the low-blue lights:
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These are spectra for two GE "post light bug light" lamps -- not the solid yellow color you see in coil-type cheap fluorescent bug lights, but a yellow filter over a white CFL; it's got very little blue emission but you can still see colors OK (well unless you're knitting or painting!)-- it's like an old gaslight warm yellowish light, not as warm as candlelight or firelight.
http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/eighth/gecflbl.gif
http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/seventh/cflbl1.gif
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or no-blue--we really like amber LED 'turtle-safe' lights in the evening.
http://www.axiomled.com/seaturtles/
Remember any white light (fluorescent, LED, CFL, halogen) will keep your sleep system from working in the evening if you're having trouble falling asleep, the "lying there in the dark with your brain wide awake" is from not letting the melatonin start building up for a few hours after sunset.
And watch what's outdoors too:
http://texyt.com/files/Image/inandescent_bulb_compared_blue_led_spectrum.png
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Thanks Tom and Hank in the thread,
good to know there's still variation in other lights available.
Ira, for you or anyone else who wants to know why the lights are made in China
http://www.ceolas.net/#li1ax
Gives the story of how the ban happened in the EU, followed by criticism of the ban.
Peter in Ireland
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I am just a bozo that gave CFL's a try years ago and like others, the old one are still working. But the last couple years I have had to switch back to incandesent as the CFL's just don't last. I gave the LED lights a try and that didn't last as long as the junky CFL's. So much for trying to be *green*.
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Care to specify which brands and which lamps you tried and found unsatisfactory?
You didn't use them with dimmers, did you? Dimmers will destroy most CFLs and most LEDs. (So will really bad noisy electric power, if your lights flicker or dim or brighten noticeably in ordinary use).
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I help manage a hotel, so we are always looking for good light bulb wholesalers for our hotel and restaurants. We only use energy star rated bulbs that minimize the environmental impact.
http://www.superiorlighting.com
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I love my LED's and have been ordering them on-line, as I cannot find them locally. My first LED purchased over a year ago is still working, the light is better, and less of an environmental impact then the CFL's that I used to buy and am slowly replaceing with the LEDs.
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CFL bulbs would be great if they didn't burn out so quickly. I've done what I believe to be everything right... dry location indoors, open fixture not enclosed, quality name brand (or so I thought) with Sylvania. These things are terrible for the environment. They are burning out at an unbelieveable rate. Most are 6 to 10 months. Just to prove to myself it wasn't bad power or something in the house, I put one on a circuit that is protected by a UPS that has automatic voltage regulation and noise filtering. STILL burning out. The worst ones were the sylvania 4 w small bulbs. It is cheaper and better for the environment to use the old style at this point.
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My local Home Depot (jacksonville, FL) now has a box for recycling of cfl bulbs. It'd be worth checking near you.
Because of the mercury, they aren't supposed to go in the regular trash, though I see it all the time. Our city recycling center will take them. Though I don't know how anyone can transport them without breakage. And do they collect the mercury or just incinerate/landfill it???
I do like the German (all europe?) method of making the producing companies responsible for total lifecycle of their products. This includes end of life disposal, and the companies have become very proficient at making things easy to disassemble and recycle. This mitigates the environmental and health cost to the general public. I believe Maine has initiated legislation along these lines.
From what I've read, the mercury in the bulb is about 10x less than the amount emitted by the electricity from a coal fired plant for comparable incandescent bulb usage. Though that's probably based on a cfl with a 7 year lifetime.
As for the yellowing, that seems a sign of UV radiation or component overheating. Another consideration for cfl's.
Thanks to Sci Fri for bringing this topic 'to light'. I've been advocating use of cfl fixtures for 15 years. Now I'll be backing off on recommending them. The cheap bulbs that have come on the market recently are unreliable and can be a fire hazard. Sizzling and smoldering should not be considered normal or acceptable behavior for a consumer product. I found a local supply of cheap LEDs that I'm trying out. I'll still use CFL, but will stick to reliable brands.
Look up John Ott's research on fluorescent lighting effects in schools and on plant growth.
Good luck to all on making this planet sustainable. And thanks to Sci Fri for helping to that end.
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Energy efficient light bulbs are the easiest first step consumers and businesses can take towards reducing their energy consumption. Products have gotten light years better in the past few years and, in my eyes, indisputably better for 99% of applications. Both CFL and LED light bulbs run much cooler than incandescent bulbs, use energy much more efficiently, and do offer saving on your electricity bill. I am a vendor of energy efficient bulbs, so perhaps I am a bit biased, but I don't know why everyone doesn't switch today.
Thanks,
jamie Paul,
Superior Lighting Dot Com
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i found the cool day light ones last the least time and that the Philips tornado ones work better than ever Philips are the best at making this type of lighting and Ive found that the Philips 20 watt tornado warm glow bulbs go for about 4 years in my kitchen and longer in other places
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100% of all the CFL bulbs I've purchased have lasted less than a year or two. Many were inexpensive, but for the early ones I paid up to $9/bulb. We have had an electrician confirm that it's not some sort of grounding or fixture issue.
And then I also have to figure out how to recycle them. I'm interested in LEDs, and I have a stockpile of CFLs for the moment, but we have stopped buying CFL. It doesn't seem like we are saving enough in electricity use to justify the manufacturing and waste costs (not to mention cost to purchase) when a bulb lasts only a few months.
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